Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

I find the responses very interesting. We use every type of advertising inclusing the Web and 800 numbers. Our margins are still good, and actually very good over the net. It is typically not the high margin that kills the customer, it is 15-20 year financing. With all the experience here I would think that someone could calmly talk about what the real issue is. We don't fleece our customers, it is their choice of having the lowes payment possible. Have you ever had acash customer upside down in his trade? Dealers that don't have facilities to take care of their customers and those who do have them and don't take care of our customers, Shame on you!
Does Lexus let their dealers sell product and not service the customer. No, they have the highest standard available with the highest margin in their industry. Why do people keep coming back to buy Lexus? Because they are treated like royalty. I doubt from the statements above that "we" really don't have a clue as to what will kill our industry. It is poor management of front end margin and lack of service priority. Most people buying RV's, can take care of their upsidedowness. Do they want to is the question after how most of us treat them before and after the sale. Our happiest customers are usually the ones who let us make a little money. Anybody not agree with this?
Keep on moving units.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

Yes we have had many customers that paid cash for their RV and paid thousands to much and belive me they know what they paid and who they bought it from. Financing the RV when you paid to much for it is another issue. We also make a fair profit on each deal, but we do not aproach it like most dealers do with the "How Much Can We make on this deal" mentality. This is the reason that RV dealers across the US have full lots, and we can't get product fast enough. We would of course agree that customer service is the most important issue, and we treat each customer as we are self would like to be treated. Fair and with respect.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

I would just say that we old school dealers cannot compete with this "New Age Internet approach" I must further say that I have run across the above mentioned dealer, one thing for sure they are doing some new things in this business that I have neer seen or heard of. I do not know how they do what they do, but I honestly must say the couple that was through my dealership praised them on high as the most straight forward RV dealership that this couple had come across. and they furhter advised me that they were on their 3th fifthwheel with those guys in less then two years. One other thing is true because this business is a "Deep Pocket" business and yes I would honestly say that customers have always paid thousands to much for thier RV, becasue we had to have that profit to operate.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

To Mr. Stroud
Your new and exciting ideas are not the envy of old dealerships. We can sell RV's for little of nothing, dump them into your market area and have you service our customers just as well as you do. And us old style dealers are starting to do this, so watch yourself.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

I do not agree with Mr. Wegge, and as a Owner I am faced with the internet dealers as well. I would assume that there are some internet dealers that do not have or offer service, but lets look at the real side of it as most people travel in their RV and always need service where ever they may be. So Mr. Wegge fears of the internet dealers from the service aspect is just a cry of fear on his on part and he wants to stop others from what he cannot do himself or so it would seem. My dealership is like many today and as the blog I just read, our floorplan and operating cost are so high that the cost must be passed to end consumer. If the rvbestbuy group is putting some new ideals and developments on the table for this business then so be it, I too would like to know what and how they do what they do. I do know that I for one have no real understanding of the internet and have a web site like most dealers do, but get little or no responce from it. I in no way can see how Mr. Wegge can boldy say the internet dealers orphan anybody, my customers travel, and they expect the factory to honor its responcability to make all dealers service their product whereever the customer goes.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

Mr. Thompson, in responce to you comments, we make a fair profit on each RV we sell, we have learned how to controll our overhead which is the key to any business, and becasue of that we can sell them lower then you can. I have not mentioned all of our new trends as they are private, we "dump" nothing into the market, however if one of our customers should trade their unit in with you they will have equity in it and it will be an easy trade for you to make. I cannot say this for every dealer out there, as most dealers sink the customer before they even put the key in the door. We have a full service dealership and if your customer comes here and it is a prooduct that we warranty, we will take care of them as we do all stranded travelers, this is the reason that we are changing this business for the better, we have been watching ourselves, that is the reason that we made the changes we did some five years ago, your position is like Mr. Wegge, lets cry about what we don't understand, or lets get them out of business becasue they have something hot going on. This is why the consumer is fed up with dealers like you. We are straight forward and the public loves it. You are not supposed to hate what you don't understand, because you have high overhead or a large building with a large payrol and floor plan is your choice. We had all that to, and choose to do something about it, when other dealers were crying "what do we do" we made new and exciting changes. SO go ahead and as you put it "dump" your product, we will convert each one into a new sale, if we can get them out of a RV that they are buried in.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

I have read the above blogs, and as a General Manger for some 10 years, I must honestly say that Mr. Stroud is correct. We have all been guilty of charging the customer too much for their RV but it was the "Nature of the Beast" with floor plan cost, and all other Cost of Business that this business has. I say if the boys at rvbestbuy have a new concept, and they service what they sell, then more power to them. I am shocked by Mr. Thompson's reply and it clearly shows what Mr. Stroud was saying that becasue of the overhead the general public views us dealers as making to much, and not that I agree with all he has said, but he clearly has some kind of new concept and after all is that not what being in business is all about. If they are making a profit and offer service after the sale then go for it boys. We are very intrested in what you guys are doing and would like to know more. I for one am goig to look at your web site. I heard it is the only one of it's kind is that true?

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

As a past GM Dealer and an RV dealer for over 25 years I see that nobody really understands the real deal. Just like GM the RV manufactures really only care about keeping their plants busy building units. Service has always been a talking point during the sales process but never has it been the primary concern for the buyer. Price is always foremost after the buyer has decided on a unit. Now the really cool part. The Idiot that thinks that a dealer has a responsibilty to be fair priced so the consumer will remain in the right equity position is in fact an Idiot.
The fact is without long term financing there would be no RV industry. Plus no one ever takes into cosideration what the manufacture makes on each deal. When I was a GM dealer and that prospect got down to the last $50. over invoice I would often say maybe we should call GM because they are clearing over $13000.00 on this $34000.00 Park Ave.and just maybe they will help you out. Well of course GM or Fleetwood or any other company will never get into the real bottom line.
So for anyone to say what the profit margin should be on any product is a fool.
The Internet is the way of the future and anyone can sell anything they want for whatever they want. Service has always been the most important after the sale andI can rest assured the Internet wholesaler of junk RVs will be just a flash in the pan. Remember that the worst customer is the one who beat you down to little or no profit and is always the one that costs you most in trying to satisfy.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

Mr.Enyeart, as a former excutive for a fortune five hundred company, I know of no company in the wolrd that does not set their profit margin, and adjust their overhead to keep said profit margine, this is all I have been saying in this discussion. I never said that I or anyone else for that matter, has any responsibility to set the consumer into any equity position. What I did say however, is that most dealers do not. I am intrested that you used the word junk as I sell the same kind of products that you do, I am sure your customers would be intrested to know that you used that term. We do not give anything away, you and other dealers adjust cost based on many factors of various over heads and COB. Your comments clearly show that you are the same kid of dealership that we emerged out of, worried about the customer beating you up and lets make all we can. Well that was ok and we were guilty of it as well, but the internet has changed all that. As for a flash in the pan as you put it, We have been in busiess since 1967, and have a triple "A" rating with the BBB. As for the manufactor, they make a profit like us or they would not be in business, can't knock them for that. It all comes down to what can we sell them for and make a fair profit and pay our employees top wages, and take care of our COB,and providing the best service for our customers, and stranded travelers that have purchased their product from you. ps I won't tell them that you called it junk that would be bad for all of us.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

Lets face it Phil everyone knows that Dutchmen is Junk and that is the real reason that the poor can afford them. It also contributes to a lower equity position when they go to trade. By the way we service many interstate and internet travellers and of course we have no problem taking their service money. Having been around for a while we were one of the first RV/Car dealers on the internet and are very succdessful doing what you do.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

Well lets see, I did not know the discussion was going in that direction, Dutchmen is the only factory that does not mass build their product and park them up front and sell them off. Each unit is hadn built, and is only built based on dealer order. I have toured more factories then you are old, and I owuld tell you that no one compares to their quality, dealers that sell against them call them junkl as you have, but when you stack up the construction process and the materials, no one even comes close to the quality that Dutchmen puts out. We are not new to this either, and without questions Dutchmen in the early years left something to be dsired, but that changed when THor came along. I would put this product against any thing you offer, and based on construction methonds alone, the customer would purchase the Dutchmen. You mentioned that the "Poor bought them" Dutchmen is usually higher then all other prodiucts in their respected market. So that holds no water at all. If you want to debate that, you will not win. The grand Junction is one of the finest fifth wheels to hit the market in some time. They are not cheap by nay means, with a retail sticker in csome cases as hihg as $70,000. DOn't know any "por folks buying those. You need to rethiink your position. IT holds no water sir.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

No matter how much dealers blow off the internet, THE INTERNET IS HERE TO STAY (until something better comes around). If you are an early adopter, congratuations, you are ahead of the curve, and if not, good luck.
Why are dealers complaining abut servicing someone else's sale. There are service only business that do just that, in the RV market as well as many many other markets outisde our industry. Personally, I would enjoy having customers come into my facility so that I could help them and establish a good relationship. This is probably less expensive than advertising to fnd a "new" customer. This is an opportunity, and if you think otherwise, it is time to get out of the business. Just my 2 cents. Good luck and good selling and good service.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

Interesting discussion topic. I missed Tim's podcast but it sounds like it may have done everyone a good service in bringing this topic out in the open for more discussion and analysis.

Every business, organization, and even magazines (as Greg will attest) are changing today. We have to change, or we will go out of business. The days of sitting back and waiting for the customers to come to you are gone folks. We must all fight harder, smarter, and longer for every customer and it is even more challenging to keep them after we finally sell them something. This dynamic is the world we live in today and it is going to require all of us to rethink how we reach new customers, what message we send them, and how we communicate with them.

Whether we like it or not - whether we embrace it or not - the Internet must be part of your business plan. To sit back and complain and do nothing is a recipe for disaster. It will eat you alive if don't understand it and use it. I not telling you HOW to use it, that's up to you. As you can see from the comments here, there are several different opinions on this HOT topic.

One suggestion, pick up a copy of Seth Godin's MEATBALL SUNDAE today. It's a quick two or three hour read. For many companies and organizations their marketing is completely out of sync with their prospects and customers and Godin explains how this is changing, why it is changing, and what you better understand as you change your company.

If you have no plans to change the way you do business today, then stop off at Home Depot on your way home so you can pick up some wood and nails to put over your doors and windows when you are left behind by those who are not willing to let this happen after all the time, money and resources that you have put into building your business to where it is today. Now it's time to think about tomorrow!

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

Bob, You can still listen to the podcast...see the navigation bar on top of the site.
I would like to thank you all for making this a civil yet animated discussion.
Carry on ;)

Wolfgang

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

Dear Mr. Goodwin, I wanted to say I fully agree with your comments, and we too welcome all service related customers here, further we also enjoy meeting new customers, di some one forget that was what this is all about. Good greif, I tried in so many words yesterday to explain that to the as they have been termed on this blog"old school dealers" It's all about marketing your dealership. Times have changed and good businessmen should change with the times or get lost in the shuffle. Further Mr. Zagami, you sir where excatly on the money, you sir are aware of as we were five year ago and saw our sales people sitting aroud with no customers walking into the door, we knew then that we must fight and adpat and the internt as we all know reaches cusomters across the world, but it does go further, and you must hang on to that customer.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

One step forward, ten steps back. It seems the professionalism that has been building in the industry for the last couple of decades is now running in reverse. We have been progressing away from the MoM and PoP stores of the 60's and 70's and moving into better facilities that the whole industry could be proud of. Yes, it is still happining but on the other side of the coin is the internet dealer coming in and working out of a pole shed and setting units on display on gravel lots or even dirt and they think they are doing the consumer a great favor by selling units cheap. They forget about things like jobs not being created by taking care of the customer with a service and parts department at a facility that makes them proud. It also erodes the profits of those dealers that have made the commitment to create jobs and to service the customer in the professional manner by which we expect. It is now up to the manufactures to control with whom they want their dealer body to be, RV Dealers or trailer trash!

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

I have watched as the comments have rolled in, and until I saw the comment by a person only listed as "GK in the Midewest" I was just going to contuine to remain silent, so here is my two cents worth on this whole deal. Just like the big auto dealers that builds a 3-4 million dollar building and wonder why the consumer has left them to purchase from a dealer that has a lower modest setting with a not so impressive building, and a overall lower cost factor on each unit sold. They scratch their heads and wonder what is going on as they set in their well furnished office with the bills to show for it, or the cash out lay on the front end. If you set your business up to impress yourself then maybe you should consider the customer and what he wants. Having a awesome building is all good and I am glad you have it, however sitting in that nice building does not bring customers in the door, and yes you made the investment but you can't fault anyone for their operation or their desire to be in this business. I do belive that a RV dealer should have a good service program and service all customers that enter the door, however don't complain about the old "Trailer Trash" taking your business because you want a pretty building. If the manufactures want to sell units (which they do) they too must lean that the internet dealer(talking about the full serivce internet dealers)
are the way of the future, and your nice pie in the sky building should look good for all persons attending the auction of said building when you go out of business (as many rv dealers with big overhead have lately) becasue you are so high on your prices. As many of our customers have told us for several years now " When you see a dealer with a 3 million dollar building, motor home inventory packed door to door, and ten salesmen all standing at the door, You know there is no bargins there". We pass thoses dealers up and look for a more modest setting that offers service, with little or modest overhead. It is easy to see the hostlity that some have displayed as this man has, calling certain dealers "trailer Trash" but it is that same "trailer Trash dealer that can and will beat your price, and he will offer service, and once that bond is established, and he has your cusomter, you can sit in that pretty building all by your self and consider your rude and unwanted comments about him, but the laugh is on you as old Trailer Trash dealer makes his way to the bank. Marketing is marketing, call it internet, call it paper ads, or whatever, but because you invested in a big pretty building does not mean that you will sell more units, in fact in todays world you will sell a heck of a lot less becasue the public is a ware that the old "trailer Trash Guy" is there, and he is nicer then you and offers a true savings on the same unit. Take a look at what the top Jap car amkers are now considering, smaller buildings with more internet marketing, "SMALLER BUILDINGS" you know why? TO CUT COSTS YOU DUMMIE! No one wants to cut any American worker out of a job and your comments there are way out of hand. Like I said, I was gonna stay out of this but your commets were rude and it apears that the old "Trailer Trash Dealer" is in your pocket book and you as Mr. Wegge and the other big building boys now want to cry and complain and want the manufactors to step in. What a crock! They sell RV's you goof ball!

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

WOW this is gettting better and better, please excuse the typing gentlemen, as our phone is ringing off the hook today and every day, so time is breif, after reading the comment about the dealer with the big building, and the gentleman that followed about the "trailer trash" dealer laughing to the bank was to much. I had to make one more comment, We were in a 86,000 square foot, Indoor show room building which was a landmark in this area since 1967. Five years ago we made a good business plan based on what we saw happening to the market. We knew that the days of the big building dealers was slowy comning to an end, and the customer, after much research, did not care if he was sitting on a pine bench, if the price was right, and the service was there. This is what our customers told us, we want to be able to purchase a new or pre owned RV without paying for our building, or paying for someone else to drive a million dollar motor home. We looked at this for some time as other dealers sprung up all around us becasue we were the landmark, and the RV buyers knew us and our location, but we could not compete on price. We had the service, we had the building, we had what we considered to be the total package. Why would a customer go to the guy down the block in a metal building and purchase his unit over ours. COST gentlemen-COST! What the internet has done is provide millions of RV customers the chance to sit down with their families and look for the floor plan and design, and any other information that wanted, and make a smart purchase based on the information available to them. Now if you don't think for a second that is the whole bottom line you need to re think, the internet is here, always will be, and thousands of RV cusomters are at home right now looking at our products, do they care if I am as the guy earlier said"trailer trash'? THey want good service, and a good price and the internet allows them to find that, its that simple. Now we of course moved from our big building becasue we saW THE WRITING ON THE WALL as far as this business goes. You can gripe and complain about your building investment and the lack of others to have such a building, but the fact is the internet has made RV customers better shoppers. If any of you were asleep, all major companies including wal mart or Crafstman, or whoever, offer their products online. The gentleman earlier referred to the Jap's starting a new era of placing much smaller loactions with no glitter in the car industry, I read that information also, and the reason is overhead and the customers avalilabilty to shop on line. This ain't nothing new folks, if this makes you mad then be mad, but don't put thoses of us down that saw this going on 5-7 years ago, and did something about it.Never put another business man down for making changes, as long as those changes are good for the customer and the industry. Something that I think all of you should know is that our research shows that most new RV buyers are going to NADA.com, and looking at what first and second year values are based on what they plan to purchase, they then compare different dealers prices on the front end before calling or seeking more information. This was not true n the days of old as we all know, but if you think for one second that your customer has not been on the web looking around you are gravely mistaken. There is a lot of business out there, we merely want our market share, and the internet allows us that and more. Company image is everything, big buildings use to be what people looked at inthe days of old, but know they look at it as costing them more money for their new or used RV. Now befoer someone comes back with a mean comment about what I have said, understand that we have commited ourselves to being the best we can be, for our employees, and of course our customers, if you don't want to make the changes that will take you into the future of this buisiness that is of course your business, however dont cry about your big building cost, and how slow business is, and those nasty"trailer trash" internet dealers are stealing our business, we have stole nothing, we earned it. Lets face it gentlemen, the world is changing, get busy selling our get busy dieing. Your choice, just don't bad mouth us for doing well.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

I would not want my earlier post to be misinterpreted. I am not an advocate of selling RVs over the Internet - never have been, never will be. The point of my post was to acknowledge that the Internet will continue to play an ever increasing role in the way every business or organization must operate in the future.

Consumers are doing a lot of their research on the Internet and are better informed when they visit a dealer.

Having said that, there are a lot of great books that explain the impact of the Internet and the need for all of us to rethink how we do business and how we market our products and services. In some cases, that will result on some items being sold over the Internet that probably should not be - like RVs!

Another excellent book to understand what is happening on the Internet is David Meerman Scott's THE NEW RULES OF MARKETING AND PR: HOW TO USE NEWS RELEASES, BLOGS, PODCASTING, VIRAL MARKETING AND ONLINE MEDIA TO REACH BUYERS DIRECTLY. David is a local author here in the Boston area and is one of the most sought after speakers on how we must change, or die.

I have suggested to both RVDA and RVIA that they consider bringin David Meerman Scott in as a keynote speaker at their annual events. This guy gets it.

There are plenty of ways to change your business with new technology and practices, and although you can carry that to the extreme - like selling over thw web - that doesn't mean it is right for the consumer or our industry.

Interesting, just as I'm writing this there is a Go RVing commercial on Fox News - it says "See an RV Dealer", it doesn't say "go buy one over the Internet and then hope liike hell that you can get the service, support, and caring people that are interested in building a lifelong relationship with you!"

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

In my earlier comments I was in the heat of our busy day and sometimes it took me an hour or so to make my comments betwwen phone calls from interent customers. I have received a lot of email on my comments, in fact 90% of the comments are "Can you help us do what you do and share you new concepts on this business" One person wrote me and said how do you have the time to write a blog, so I answered that in my opening comments. I read Mr. Zagamii's comments and I do not agree with him this time, as he seems to have changed his thinking based on his first comment. No the commercial does not say go to the internet and look for a RV, it does say go to your local dealer. However MR. Zagami, the fact is that more and more RV buyers are doing just that, we have the actual figures on how many, but I would shock you and many other (so called experts) with that information. Your comments like MR. Wegge, keep going to the same old deal "SERVICE". WE ARE A FULL SERVICE DEALER OK! Now, I can't go any further and tell you the changes that we made in our service to help our internet customers, because that too is just another of our "New RV Concepts" that many dealers are requesting from the emails that I have received today. OK lets talk about service, do your cusomters only have problems when they are close to you? In case you were not aware most people travel in their RV. Do you think they can wait to get it fixed? You guys act like this is something new. The fact is that many of the "Old School" boys just will not help a stranded traveler, and they say they can't get them in right away. We hear this all the time. Now our customers that can get their units back to us get timely service "thorugh our new concepts program" and we take care of them as any "GOOD" dealer in this business should. ( and we have implemented ways of helping out of state as well) Mr. Wegge himself said in his interview that his service was not a money maker, and he further stated that his service department was always full. SO what to do! The service issue HOLDS NO WATER FOLKS-NO WATER! My customers do not just stay in my state when they use their RV, come on people, you must have another issue other then the "old Service crap" We service more stranded travelers then any other dealer in this state. I go far and beyond in helping each person that walks into our doors-with the RV that they bought from you! NOT US, YOU! (but they soon will buy from me) So please if you are smart businessmen, then please use some of that knowledge and find some other reason to tell me that I am "BAD for the business. Now as I stated in my earlier comments, I cannot go into the New Concepts that my partner and I have put together as it is a closely guarded business ideal that we put together five yeras ago when we saw RV dealers springing up around us on gravel lots with no service of any kind and.. This state only has 2.8 million people they are not all campers, my partner ( who is without doubt the smartest man in this business and is a thrid generation RV dealership owner and quite frankly a walking brain) came to me as a financial expert and laid some new and unheard of ideals out about this business and how to change it from days of old and make it better for the cusomter and so on and so on. This touches another point, if you guys are mad and making call to the manufactors, tell them to stop putting dealers in everywhere, that have no service on the front end. That would stop yourt service gripe! Mr.Zagami, I have read many books about the internet, and it seems that you are always trying to get some contact of yours into the rvda for his or her ideals. This business is changing, why do you and other contuine to try to fool yourself into thinking that these are the days of old? The internet is here sir, and your so called expert "does not get it" The whole problem here is that I just can't tell each and everyone of you the way that my partner and I are changing this business for the better. The issues in the business are old, so they called for a new concept, the days of the "uninformed customer" are over. The days of the "Old Pressure sale" are over, the days of having the wrong parts in your service bay are over, the days of the "hard close sale are over, the days of a new rv customer walking into your business without internet research are over. Gentlemen, this goes and on and on. This might intrest you guys, we have not done a state run RV show in Five years, want to know why? That same RV show that we use to sell 30-35 units at has become just a "looking grounds" until further internet research is done on that unit and the price. that same RV shows now cost me as a dealer some $15,000 to $20,000 hard money to attend. I can save my cusomter a lot of money by NOT going, and in fact I sold more rigs the weekend that the show was in my state then were sold at the RV show itself. Why? The cusomter were at home researching the internet before they even went to the show,(if they went at all based on the steady decline of RV show attenders) or had at some time done their research. Mr. Zagami, if you want the RVDA to become more in tune with what is going on then stop with the "So Called experts" and lets introduce some real world person that is in the trenches. Not some expert that has never sold a RV in his life or ran a dealership and faces the everday issue that we do. I for one am tired of the "so called expets that write a book and become experts and have never acheived anything other then writing a book, and spread their "expert ideals" to those that are a governing body. Now in ending my rampage and comments, I can and will not force any of you to accept my ideals or knowledge about the issues of this wonderfull business. I f you choose to contuine the old days concept that is truly your business and good luck with it. Just be aware that the internet is and will contuine to be the key for any and all research for the buying public. Thats it! that is what the whole internet thing is about: INFORMATION BEFORE YOU BUY. Now there are many things that must be done other then just have a web site, and that is where most dealers draw a blank. They do not know how to use the power of the internet or adapt to its power, but in conclusion, and I am repeating this, don't complain about what we do as bad for the industry, its not! We take care of your cusomters and ours, and will contuine to do so. If you want the service issue to stop then call the manufactors who have their field agents setting dealers up that have no service bays at all. I assure you That will stop the service issue you contuine to gripe about.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

Let's face it! The internet is here to stay and it is the most powerful advertising tool since TV. And far better suited to an RV dealership than TV or newspapers ever were. There are a couple of points I would like to add to the discussion.
1. Some websites that do very agressive "price-leader" advertising are simply doing what we have always done in print ads, mailers, etc. They try to get the attention of a prospect and entice him to visit the dealership, make a phone call, or,what is new, send an e-mail response. The idea is to get a two way conversation going between a sales person and the prospect. As long as they are legal, ethical, truthful ads, I have no problem with them.

2. There are other, destructive websites, that use an automated or semi-automated system to give discounted quotes on any RV they sell or can order. These are a different matter. The manufacturer should be able to control them. If one of these websites shows up with a brand we sell and with a physical location within a hundred miles or so of my dealership, it will require quick action. An alternate competitive brand is probably the answer. My salesmen are astute enough to quickly figure out which are profitable to sell and which are not. If the delivery point for a purchase is hundreds of miles away, we can deal with it. Any buyer willing to go to that much trouble to save a buck or two, is going to be a pain forever.

3. Several dealers have focused on the service question, but I believe in the long run, the adequate retail exposure of the actual product may become a bigger problem for manufacturers who don't handle this right. As someone pointed out, retail show attendance is dropping. These are not cars. You can't see one on every corner and prospects have to see one somewhere before they will buy it. That's the value that a stocking dealer adds to the product -- the ability of the customer to examine it and touch it. It's why we deserve a decent profit. Brands that become targets for this kind of "e-mail me a bid" marketing may begin to slowly disappear from dealers lots or simply become the bait for a switch to something else. This may be a tougher problem for the manufacturers than for the dealers.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

I have followed this debate and if anyone will notice, there have been more comments on this blog then all the others put together. I am a mid west dealer and have been in the business for about 16 years. Like it or not the internet is here. I agree that it (the internet) is a marketing tool just as paper ads, or any other type of media is. I listened to the man that was interviewed and he just seemed to be angry over something that he did not know much about, so I went to his web site and yes he too is a internet dealer and has a web presence. I am know trying to figure out why someone on the internet would be so anrgy about other dealers with a web presence. Now I would say that Mr. Stroud seems to be in a defensive position with no reason to be, and I went to this web site as well in my research. I must say it is most likley one of the best sites on the web as far as internet sites go. My conclusion is a personaly one, so here goes; I have a web presence along with most of the dealers I know. I provide service and try to establish a good relationship with the customer, I use all kinds of marketing and this happens to be just one of them. I would further say that the talk of having the manufactors "stop internet sales" is a bad ideal. I agree that the manufactors should not award a franchise to any person without service, or the proper networth to deal with long term financial issues that are assoicated with this buisness. However if they "ban" internet dealers won't we all really be affected? I know we would. I saw where Greg Gerber is intending to do a podcast with Mr. Stroud and I for one, will be looking for that and I am very intrested in hearing what those guys are doing. One last comment, and that is, I do not agree with the blog before this one, per the automated system that some dealers have on their web sites. I have fought with several manufactors becasue they will not let me run my business as I see fit, as I would like to be able to sell a unit for whatever price I wish to. I further would say that I should be able to advertise said unit for whatever price I wish to set. Lets face it, if they start telling dealers how they can or can't sell their products we are all in trouble. So be carefull before you make that call and start complaining, or it's you that will be sorry in the end. I can onlly say that I for one am glad this topic was brought out, it was long over due. I hope that others will walk away from this as I have with the thoughts that the serviced based internet dealer is not to blame for anything other then being very creative and selling units. Isn't that what we do gentlemen?

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

This is one of the best conversations on the Internet and congratulations to Greg and Mr. Stroud for presenting compelling arguments in defense of their positions.

Let me address a couple of the comments directed specifically to me and the items I posted here.

First, I have been writing in the RV industry for over ten years and anybody who has read my articles knows that I have always been against a dealer refusing to service a product that was not purchased at their dealership. Mr. Stroud is right on the money here - you may not have sold the customer the first time but if you take care of them in their time of need then you will probably sell them the next time. This is how we handle equipment in my imaging business and we refuse no noe - in fact, we go out of our way to please them and respond immediately to their problems.

Second, while I not in favor of selling something as complex over the Internet, I have not said that others could not do it. I have opposed AGI and many of their business practices but have always acknowledged their righ tin our free society to do whatever they want as long as it is ethical and legal. The same holds true for Mr. Stroud - he may be an industry leader in what he has developed at his dealerhsip and I congratulate him. That doesn't mean I have to agree with him, but he can do what he wants and is apparently being very successful in blazing new ground in our industry.

As for the authors and books I mention, it is only to give everyone a chance to read what others are saying about how one has to market their business. I think if Mr. Stroud read the two books I mentioned he would find that Seth Godin aned David Meerman Scott would agree with him more than they agree with me becuase they advocate a dramatic change in the way we do business today.

Isn't that exactly what Mr. Stroud is claiming he has done? I think it is and I suggested the books so that we all have a better understanding of the changing dynamics of every business today.

I always like to listen to opposing views and will study them and try to learn from them. I don't have all the answers and can learn from others, as we all can. The question we struggle with here is what is good for the industry and what is good for our customers in the long run. As noted above, I don't agree with everything that AGI, Freedom Roads and Camping World does, but I respect their right to do it and would never do anything to stop it. In the final analysis - people buy from people that present the best solution to their problems or their desires.

Everytime I lose a sale I learn something new. If there are dealers losing sales to Lazydays, FreedomRoads and/or Mr. Stroud's business (sorry, I am not familiar with his dealership) then they did something that made sense to their buyer and they got the deal. If I lose in a situatioin like this then I want to know why.

I too will be very interested in listening and learning from Mr. Stroud does indeed to a podcast in the near future.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

It's very interesting hearing what you're all saying should/shouldn't be done, and how you have watched your customer base evolve. Here's my story, which is from the other side of the desk.

We recently purchased our first RV. We started looking online and doing research about four months ago. We became familiar with what several OEMs offered, and learned what our must-have features were, and what our price range (and therefore age range) was. We observed many online sales on eBay, never bidding (I cannot with common sense buy a vehicle I haven't driven). We looked up dealers in our area, and literally drove at least an hour in every direction to visit them, as well as a couple here in town with us. Note: We did NOT visit ANY dealerships that did not show their inventory online! How could I know if it would be worth the trip if I couldn't tell whether they even had any units I might want to buy?

In the end, we bought from a dealership here in town, feeling confident we had done enough research to know it was a good deal. The sale was finished, and now we have a few things for the service dept. to fix up for us before delivery, and they're taking immensely good care of us over on that side, and we feel great about our relationship with them. We already have another job for them to do for us, installing a rear vision camera. And we haven't even taken delivery yet!

This, I think, is going to be the norm now in the way sales are made. The customer does research online, comes into your dealership heavily educated, and then will buy from you once they understand what they're looking at and are comfortable with what you want them to pay for it. I think it's a really good way to do business. It's good for the customer, who is smarter because of the information available; and it's good for the dealership, who sells more units because people don't feel like they're getting in over their heads and will go ahead and make the plunge. I don't see how this can be a bad thing. Nothing's perfect of course, but then, slacker businessmen will drop the customer no matter if they're standing in front of them or connecting online; conscientious ones will go above and beyond regardless, as well. There's no one-size-fits-all business model. The Internet is just a tool like everything else, and you can use it for ill or for good; it is inherently neither.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

I couldn't have said it nearly as well as Ms. Riley just did. All us dealers should study her post. Travel Trailers are more like houses than cars. Realtors are finding that the web brings in more educated buyers that can make a buying decision more easily and quickly because they know what they want.

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Bob, thanks for the nice words, and I have sent you a personal reply through your email adress that you so kindly sent me sir. Yes we are changing this business from the days of old, and our customers love our new concepts and ideals. I hate the fact that I can not expand on some of the big things that we are doing here, and in my emaill to you BOB I explaind some of things we do different. I want to say that this was a good topic, and my only desire was to show that we are a full service dealership that happens to have a new concept internet site. I was just unhappy with Mr. Weggs comments whcih seemed to me as being one sided, and that internet dealers were "bad for the indusry" when in fact the internet is very good for the industry when presented correctly. The responce to our web site from other dealers has been a shock, with most of you wanting a call from us. I enjoyed reading Barb Riley comments as well. Our site is reviewed by thousands each month, and these are new RV customers that as Barb Riley stated, are getting information. The thing we did was to take it several steps further. We are in this business becasue we love it, and if you love what you do you will never have to work a day in your life.

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Its the new Satellite Dealers/Brokers. You Know the ones the Manufacturer says don't exist or their NOT a Broker, Bull!!
These are the only Internet sellers you need worry about. They sell product for maybe a $1500 profit, they have no overhead so they can do that and They are Destroying the Full Service RV Dealers Profits.
Its the Manufacturer who needs to set the standards. If your Manufacturer is allowing your competitor to sell for nothing then Call Call & Call the Manufacturer complaining. Eventually they will get sick of the calls. Iv seen this work and the end result was only MSRP prices on line. Do some research and you will see its the newer Dealers who have no overhead selling cheap. It is no doubt Hurting the Industry.
How can we compete with a Satellite Dealer/Broker who has no Inventory or overhead?? you can't! Keep calling your Manufacturer & find out who the Dealer is selling for nothing, spread the word.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

Mr. RAYLee I disagree with the Manufactor setting the standards on price. In my earlier comments and I noticed someone else replied on this as well, when the manufactor starts telling you how much you can or can't advertise a unit for you sir have lost all control of your business. We are a full service dealership, but I can tell you that we wold be less on any of our products then another dealer who offers the same product. However, it goes back to what my main comment has been, to make it in todays world you must restructure every aspect of your business to stay in todays business world. I agree with you that the internet dealers with no service should not be allowed, and I have fought the good fight on a couple of those, but please before you call the manufactors make sure that they are indeed a no service web based outfit.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

This one really has legs .....

I disagree with RayLee also. If you need somebody else to tell you how to run your business then you shouldn't be in business. This is America and if you own a business you dictate the rules. You set the pricing, you set expected profit levels, you hire the people and you sell to your customers - how you do all this is none of anybody else's business, especially the people you buy from. People buy from people and companies they respect and have confidence in. If you lose a sale to an Internet bandit that doesn't have a showroom or a service department then shame on you. You should be able to present that argument to the prospect you are courting. And unless you want to become a manufacturer then you should not try to tell them how to run their business either. If there current dealers are not selling enough units for them to meet their plan, then they are going to change something. I think this is the main thrust of many of the comments here - we all have to change our business to reflect consumer demands and market conditions.

When I buy a product for resale, the last thing I want my supplier to tell me is how I can sell it, where I can sell it, and how much profit I can make when I do sell it. You have to study your competition to see what they are doing differently than you, if it is costing you deals. Guess what, they are doing the same thing to you.

I am still convinced that a dealer that is ethical in all his/her business dealings, offers value added services, and builds relationship with their customers will survive in our competitive world. Peoiple will pay extra to do business wiht a local dealer if there is value. If the consumer sees no difference between you and a the company selling over the Internet from a back office with no store, no service and no employees - then shame on you for not exposing them and good luck to the uneducated consumer that falls for such deal in the first place.

When you lose a deal don't blame somebody else, look in the mirror. What could you have done differently to secure that business? Think about it.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

Why do Mr. Stroud's comments always sound so much like a sales pitch aimed at a retail prospect? Why would we need to know that he thinks he has a magic formula that makes it possible for him to sell for "less on any of our products than any other dealer who offers the same product"? I doubt the magic formula notion. But, it does make a nice sales pitch.

Every dealer reading this blog could make all of the same claims. Just words. But I must agree, Mr. Stroud, that your take on the importance of the web to us, as RV dealers, is pretty much on the mark. Can't agree with all you say but the web is BIG!

I do wonder how much of the audience for this blog is actually RV dealers and how much is the general RV public.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

I have a comment/question:
I'm not sure this discussion is on point, and I don't think Mr.Wegge is foolish enough to think the internet is the issue. Actually I think he fully embraces it....The issue as I see it is not the RV sale on the internet, the issue is the service after the sale. If you have a dealership in Arkinsas and you sell a coach to a customer via the internet in California, how do you provide service to this customer when things go wrong?
I have no doubt Mr Stroud has great customer service, I also have no doubt the majority of his sales are relatively local (this is an assumption on my part), I think the issue that Mr. Wegge brings up is more with the "real" internet dealers. They sell the unit on line at maybe 1500 over invoice, and deliver it to the customer's door (hire a driver), and as soon as the delivery truck pulls out of the driveway, the customer is on his own...or depends on the local dealer. The local dealer may not have the capacity to deal with this, as he has customers of his own to take care of....hence the customer, who has now invested in this life style, is stuck and getting frustrated with the local dealer...and eventually just hang it up, get out of their coach, and move on to...a hotel.
Isn't that what the real issue is here?

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

I have one more question:
How many units do you think are being sold via "internet dealers"??

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

I am very sorry if our concept sounded like a "sales pitch" however when you are excited about what you are doing it may come off that way. It is not my intention, however since all this debate has taken place we have been flooded with dealers across the United States that have said "Hey we have heard of you guys" and we have heard that you are truly different in your aproach and the cusomters we have met, speak strongly of your new aproach to this business,how do we learn about what you do and wil you share your ideals. I guess of course thier are those as you sir who are not happy with us or do not kow of the great changes that we are making in this business. Hey and thats ok! So if it sounds like some kind of sales pitch I am truly sorry you took it that way, however we are positive owners and are excited about what we are doing, and I can flood your email with cusomters who say the same thing. We will contuine to be excited while the rest of the market place looks very unsure.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

Mr. Stroud, don't worry about that guys comments, he is one of the "Old School Boys" that just does not understand changes, I can tell that you are truly excited about what you guys are doing, so if you are that excited about it then "Rock On" I like a guy that is excited about what he does, quite frankly, if I could afford to, I would love for you to come put that excitment in my dealership. I too have heard of you guys an one thing for sure you guys are doing something different, don't pretend to know what but something different! Good luck and don't let the "old School" boys drag you down with their bad comments. I too would like to know more about your operation and will be listening to your pod cast if you do it. However I am sure your comments will be more related t the internet issues at hand. Jerry

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

Thanks Jerry, I am not sure who you are sir, but thanks. Yes we run the whole dealership on positive ideals, when the employee base is upbeat things start happening, but as we all know in this business"Nothing happens until some body sells something" I will share a quick story told to us by a customer that really happened at a dealers showroom, when a old seasoned RV'er walked into the showroom and asked the young salesperson "how much is this RV son" The salesman told him to go look at the MSRP sticker. He looked at the MSRP sticker and said" SOn do you think I am stupid or something, I am not going to pay full sticker for this unit! The salesman replied, no sir, I did not think you were stupid, but if you were I did not want to miss ya! My point is that most dealers still operate on a High Sticker then through back and forth between management and the salesperson try to reah a so called "medium" . I assure you the customer is tired of this, and just wants to know your bottom line. SO why go through all the wasted motions and time when you know what you want your margins to be inthe first place. Never been approached that way before-Until NOW! Just tryin to help guys, no sales pitch intended!

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

After reading some of these responses I feel I should clear up some of what I said in te podcast. First, I am not against internet sales and marketing. it's here to stay and will continue to grow in it's importance in all dealers marketing plans. The approach one very vocal dealer here is condoning is to have low overhead which basically means very modest facilities and very little inventory. then sell a travel trailer with an invoice of $17000 for $1000 over invoice to someone 500 miles away from his dealership, have it delevered to them and then try to make us believe his customer service is outstanding and he is the savior of the RV consumer because 99% of all honest RV dealer are selling our RV's for too much. What happens when that customer 500 miles away developes a terrible water leak, electrical issue or a major slide problem? sure the answer is go to a local dealer. What if the local guy can't or won't service it? The customer becomes very frustrated. This is a very real scenerio. I understand this is a business model one can choose and I don't assume anyone choosing this has no service. On the contrary I'm sure they do but you can't properly service this unit from 500 miles away. Most dealers reading this do not have overhead low enough to sell a $17K travel trailer for $1k over invoice. This is where we have a problem with this. it isn't the selling and Marketing pratice it's the predatorial practice of luring consumers away from good local RV dealers with preditory pricing that sets too low a standand in the consumers mind for them to trust the local dealer any longer with their business. I hope everyone understands what I am saying. Someone asked how many RVs are being sold like this. Mr. Stroud, where i appreciate that you have a new approach you are not a huge problem for most dealers where it comes to selling RVs into their markets. I would not have taken up this issue it I hadn't myself seen the numbers of units being sold by just two of the best at this predatory sales practice. one of these dealers is located in Michigan and is selling at least 1000 a year all over the country. if you saw a map of the US with dots on it of all the units they sell this way it would look like the US had a terrible case of measles. This is just one of these guys. There is another with a similar measle map totalling again thousands of units. so we aren't talking about 70 or even 200 units a piece these guys are selling. it is in the tens of thousands by now and the number is rising. If the dealers reading this saw these maps and just how many are being sold from one end of the country to the other in every market, another dealers market, i promise it would make you gasp. I'm not a little boy crying wolf about something I don't know what I'm talking about. We all know or have heard of the names of these dealers and I feel safe in saying all or most of us have lost many sales to them. Another point to make here is that I understand there are different business models and this is certainly one. the other is a more traditional model where the dealer puts significant money into facilities and paving and training and master techs etc etc. Local consumers want to purchase from them but when they go to do what consumers do to check if your price is competitive they are finding the preditorial pricing hundereds of miles away, told it will be delivered to their home and you can take this to your local dealer to have it serviced. Why wouldn't they buy for the $1K over invoice internet guy and have it delivered. I would. my point is this, consumers want to feel protected and want to purchase from professional people that look like they have been around awhile and are intitled to a fail price but who made the $1K over invoice guy the authority on what a customer should pay. Not all want what $1K over invoice buys them which in my example above could end up being a tough service experience. Let's just agree that there are different business models and stop kicking each other. There is a responsible way to use the internet to sell your business and your products. I just don't think $1K over invoice is truly representative of what the majority of RV dealers can legitimately sell there products for and stay in business. Lastly, I do not believe manufacturers should set rules on internet pricing. MSRP means nothing and doesn't solve anything. Go ahead and put your pricing out there but don't price your products so low that the average RV dealer can't keep master techs on staff, or have a paved lot with a descent looking dealership. The disparity between what the average dealer can price his products for and what the consumer is getting with the click of a mouse over the internet hundreds or thousands of miles away is the problem. It's preditorial and the consumer doesn't win when they don't have a relationship with a local dealer to service them properly and it puts dealers other dealers out of business.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

Just one more comment. After rereading one of mr. strouds comments. Yes of course our customers travel with their RVs and while traveling they should get good transient care. All good dealers should open their service doors to the traveling RVer and they should have first in status. if not it will hurt this industry. If they can't get there problems fixed while traveling they won't travel in them.That issue is quite different than you selling someone from 500 miles away for 1K over invoice and you not ever having to help them when they are in need of service unless of course they happen to be traveling to Arkansas. Transient care is not what I am referring to here. It's the lack of thought or concern for them or the industry as a whole when we send them off, or worse yet deliver to their driveway, an RV you know you won't be servicing for them. Unless you can tell me you call ahead before you ink the deal to make sure they have a dealer that will care for them the way the local dealer will then your point of having great service has no meaning to your long distance consumers. I'm not even sure why you are so vocal as you don't really sell that many units out of you state of Arkansas. My comments are really pointed toward the big internet sellers selling thousands every year all over the country. That's one dealer selling over 1000 units per year and there are more than one of these guys out there. These guys really don't care about service after the sale. They simply tell the consumer you can get it serviced by the local dealer for that brand and the consumer never checks that claim out. Mr. Stroud, when your customers are traveling through Wisconsin I will help them if they need it. if the good dealers out there go out of business because $1K over invoice doesn't pay the bills who will do the transient service the industry and the consumer needs?

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

Wow, wouldn't this make an interesting group discussion topic for the RVDA International Convention/Expo in Las Vegas. In my document imaging career we have a similar conference and each year we try to have one "shootout" where we take a controversial topic (gee, do you think this would quality) and then get two dealers or manufacturers to debate each other and try to convince the audience that their position is the correct one. This is the most attended event at our annual dealer/service company meeting and a "don't miss" meeting. I think Tim explained the downside of the guys that sell over a computer that don't have a facility, a sales team, a service facility, and no business scruples that are tainting what all professional dealers are trying to do to keep the consumer happy and make sure they stay in the RV lifestyle. I have always maintained the despite the millions of dollars that the RV industry spends on Go RVing, a program that was designed to create market expansion, it really hasn't worked. This is not the fault of RVIA, RVDA or the Go RVing committee. It is the fault of poor customer service, bad products, warranty problems, parts availability and the myriad of other problems that the industry must fix because for every new customer that comes into the lifestyle through Go RVing, we lose one out the back door because they are fed up with the problems they encounter from "some" dealers and manufacturers. For the amount of money being spent, we should be growing the industry and we are not. Instead we are treading water and talking about the numbers going down instead of up - and those are the retail numbers of units sold through dealers. What about the number of consumers selling their own units. These are not trivial issues folks and we have very smart consumers that get educated real quick over the Internet. It's a different world out there, as we have seen in the great contirbutions posted to this blog.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

Sir Let me educate you and others here! You and other Dealers on this Blog "Don't Get The Point" I was trying to make.

I own an RV Dealership who did over 7Mill in Internet sales last year! Iv sold in over 44 states last year! Why? I was forced into doing it! Im spending about $30k a year just to run my website and stay competative. Why? I was forced into doing it!
If you can't stay competative On-Line than you might as well stay off cause your waisting your time.

Now..Lets look at How this all started.. Thru this RVI newsletter with the saying "The old Way of Fleecing The Customers further with high prices are all wasted dollars and do nothing for the industry except put consumers...blah!blah!Blah!..This is a Poly! and your all buying into it. as you keep posting on this blog and helping the rankings of the RV Dealers whom you all complain about that are run by the programmers that own this site & blog,need I say more! I will...

Yes I run a Full service dealership and i agree with your quote "When the Manufacturer starts telling you how to sell your product to the customers" I couldn't agree more Sir, I am the one who made the Manufacturers all the Cash, They don't know how & what works & sells. Yes the Manufacturers who are letting Dealers/Brokers/Satellite locations sell their product for nothing are destroying their Reputation, Their Dealer Network, ect... But Thats why I Say Call,Call,Call,Call & spread the word. Keep calling your Manufacture & complaining. Call everyone you know who Sells the product you do at the price you do and inform them of the deals you have seen go one.
Do your research on the dealers beating your price, find dirt on them and keep complaining and calling your Manufacturer. Eventually they will see the decline in sales & their reputation and their Dealer Network and then may reconsider, If their not sick of all the calls.

My research has found the companies that are doing this cheep selling all are having Financial Issues, so their moving Iron, their hurting for sales.

My research has found one of the biggest dealers on line causing alot of this Im not going to mention any names yet but if you look into it they sell (Jayco, Laredo, Rockwood, ForestRiver, Cardinal,Hurricane, FourWinds, Coachmen,
Roadtrek, Hornet,Georgetown) I found over 30 complaints thru the BBB on this particular company. We have passed this along to the Manufacturer we have distributed for for over 20yrs with the #1 customer service ranking in 2007, and guess what They Dont Care! or the new Manufacturers Sales Team Don't get it!

Like I said before..If you keep calling the Man. eventually they will "Set a Standard". Yes they are dictating to you but enough pissed of Dealers will force them into setting a standard on-line advertisement Like one of our Man. did "MSRP pricing on-line advertisement only"..
Iv seen this on the other side as well, Some Manufacturers do still support their Dealers who made them! Thos that I have seen still have a great reputation & we have no problem selling their product.
Iv also witnessed a Large Manufacturer who allow one of these on-line brokers (thats all they are, they no nothing about service) to sell their product. After they seen the pricing they pulled them ,They even had to go to court to do it. Now their sales are strong! never have an issue.!

The other point to this is This Blog! Do you know who owns This website? Do you know what your doing to your competitors rankings by posting on this Blog? Maybe the programmers who run this site & Blog also Optimize your competitors web site?
Do some research people! remember we got one of our Manufacturers to stop this by allowing only MSRP pricing on-line!

I would also suggest you all go to blogger dot com and look at their policy/rules so you can understand what a blog is about. You can pretty much say whatever you want on a Blog, if you own it!

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

Dear RayLee,
I am the publisher of RV Industry News, and this web site. We are owned by our parent company, Milo Media. We are in the business of publishing business to business magazines...in many different industries. We do not own a dealership, manufacturing plant, or any retail facility, nor are we affiliated with any.

Feel free to contact me directly at Milomedia...my number is 920-691-1244 and we can discuss further if you'd like. You can also go to our corporate home page at www.milomediapub.com to find out more about who we are and what we do.

Cheers,

Wolfgang

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

Without question this is a "Hot Topic" I have talked with several of you owners and managers last week and this week, and I thank you for the calls and emails, most of you had the same questions, and all were very nice and just wanted to know more about our operation. Now before the gentleman states that I am giving a "sales pitch" I just wanted to say that everyones concept on the actual structure of his or her dealership is your business, we do not support internet dealers with no service and we have made that clear. If that is the whole issue here, then once again, the manufactor should not offer franchises of any product based on that information. Now if I have a gravel lot, or a paved lot, a big building or a small one, this is all your choice. If you provide a good service program, and you can preform all services needed to keep your customer happy then that is the deal as I see it. That is all it is, that is all that we can do as good business owner in this business. In fact it should be a must have for any dealer. Now we too have watched as the manufactors have allowed internet based dealers with no service sell units for low profits, and if we come up against them in a sales situtation we walk away with the sale becasue of our know how, and the word does spread people, we all share in the service aspect as I see it, and if I have a fulll service dealership, then I am a big part of the whole network of good honest dealers that share in that responcability. You can not ask any more of any one dealer. Now where I disagree is that if I can run my business for a lot less the you can, you have no wright to tell me that I can't offer the same unit for less then you do becasue of your "large" investment and large floor plan , and so on. This is the American way, I sell for less because I can. now we have made an investment also, and I desire the wright to sell as I see fit, if I want to advertise my costs, the manufactor or another dealer has no wright to tell me that I can't. This is not Russia folks, if you want to compete then you have to do the work to do so. If this means changes for our dealership structure then so be it, we made changes that are truly different from most of you. I told every one of you that I spoke with that what we do will not work for most dealers,and to those of you that called or emailed I explained why. I just disagree that becasue one dealer can sell for less then you can, is no reason to get on the phone and cry to the manufactor about internet prices. It's all marketing folks, and we like any other smart business are good marketers and we are in business to make money, take care of our cusomters, and enjoy the fruits of our hard work. Now Bob, if you want to set a debate based on my position on this matter in Vegas I would consider that, but I have no argument with any one that no service dealers should not be able to offer RV's on the web or on their lots for that matter if they even have a lot. What I strongly disagree with is that because I can beat another dealers price, he cries to the manufacture that I am a nasty internet dealer stealing his cusomter, that blows my mind, and the blog before this referred to my comments of the old fleecing the cusomter, this comment was made because of our world wide capabilities, we talk to a lot of RV buyers, that have a RV that they are "sunk" in. We see this every day all day, we too were guilty in the old days as well becasue we had the overhead that you do now. We choose to change our views and saw that if the cusomter bought the unit "right" the first time (reguarless if he financed it or not as one blogger mentioed that the long term financing was to blame) it made it much easier for that cusomter to purchase a second or a third RV, how in the world can that be bad for the industry, wow just imagine, a cusomter with a 10 year note on his RV that actually has equity in his unit according to NADA, and once again we can do this becasue we have taken great steps to reduce each and every aspect of our business operation that would not hurt our customers, or yours. So if you sir want to call the manufactor becasue I can beat your price, then go ahead and do so, but as one rep form the manufactor said, "You arent' giving anythig away don't worry about it, keep selling units and provide good service that is all we can ask from you as a dealer" As for his comments about who owns this web site yes we know who owns it, and that does not concern me. What does concern me is that if you are selling 7 million just on the internet what in the hell are you mad about?

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

We are an "old school" dealership in a small market. We have only in the last year really embrased the internet, and have started to see a modest return with it in our small market area. Mr. Stroud's dealership is doing it right. They are making grosses as good as we are on the lot. That is how an internet based dealership should be doing it. How I feel an internet based dealership shouldn't be doing it is this, selling at a price that barely covers invoice. That just floods the market and makes it hard on all dealers, including legit internet dealers. That is a waste of resonable profit margin. I think these type of dealers are the real reason for this debate. Grouping all internet dealers in one group like this is not a proper cross section to study. Also, for the smaller internet dealers and even the bigger ones, have you tried including Google Analytics to your website. The information you receive from this is so beneficial. It can make a small website very powerful. I agree customers are looking for new ways to buy, and the internet is the easiest way for them to educate themselves and get the best information. And how many of these internet customers are really travelling 300-400 miles or more from their market areas to buy? And what is wrong with a dealership selling a unit at a high price? I don't really think in todays information highway that happens as much as it used to, but if a customer is willing to spend that amount and is happy with it, whose really to blame? And why hasn't anyone brought up the difference in transportation fees that dealers have to deal with?? I know what we pay for this is much less than what a dealer in Florida will pay. This was a big issue in the automotive industry and they regulated it and made all dealers pay the same amount. This could be a way to even the playing field, even just slightly. To me, the internet is just a new sales tool that isn't leaving.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

Mr Stroud you are trying so hard here to make yourself look like you are so brilliant and so profitable. I went to your website and looked at your pricing practices and frankly it doesn't take a genius to have very modest facilities, very few employees, no motorhomes as you have made it clear you don't, very little in inventory and price their products over the internet at $1K or less over invoice on an average travel trailer of fiver. Anyone can do that. Most dealers have more committment to this industry in people, facilities, training and inventory to sell at those prices. Make sure all the dealers who want to know what you are doing can afford to sell at those levels. This is the issue. Pricing on the intenet so low that the local dealers 500 or 1000 miles away can't operate profitable at those levels. We're not all going to sell our current stores to Walmart and start over on a gravel lot. We all need each other to help the RV traveling public. You sir are hurting your fellow dealers mostly in you own state with your preditory pricing. the information any dealer needs to evaluate whether they can afford his advise is right on his website. Take a look and tell me if your dealerships can make money at those prices. I understand that he might be able to but when he blasts this all over the internet the buying public immediately thinks we all have the modest overhead he has and expect us all to sell at those prices. I say again, mr.stroud has preditory pricing practices that draw customer from long distances to save money but his claim to be the leader in the internet sales game just don't hold water. The big dealers out there with the same preditory pricing are practices are a much bigger concern to me and most dealers who have lost a lot of sales to them. They are selling thousands over the internet not a couple hundred or so like Mr. Stroud and they are selling them in every state from sometime thousands of miles away. The stats tell the whole story. Soon we will all see just how many these big RVS4cheap dealers are selling. When you all see the stats you will gasp. enough beating on each other. We all need each other. Bob Zagami is right. We have a lot of issues with quality, warranty, ralliy selling and parts availability to deal with. The last thing we need is for dealers to stop working together on the big issues. unfortunately preditory pricing on the internet has just added one more issue the industry didn't need.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

Hello, anyone that missed this comment before here it is,
"We are a full service dealership, but I can tell you that we wold be less on any of our products then another dealer who offers the same product By Phil Stroud on 3/11/2008 3:51 PM"

I have just calcuted my cost of a same unit selling it to a retail customer in Arkansas and you know, it is just $500 dollars over invoice. Wow, sweet deal for me, I get the cash, no hassle from the warranty and service end because I have a servicing dealer in Arkansas that is more than williing to help this customer out when he discovers the 20 issues that my $7.5 an hour prep guy missed before he transported the retail sold RV to Arkansas. No more expenses for me. The only problem I have is finding enought time to cash all these hig volume internet sales checks. What a great business model for me. Just damn the industry for letting this grow into a mess for future customer satisfaction. Mr Wegge is so right on, but these "dealers" and manufacturers that are letting this grow aren't interested in this business 5 years from now, just their fast buck they make at the expense of the industries future. God I hope I don't have to turn into one of these dealers, but it looks like I soon will if we all don't find some win win solutions for everyone. They are out there, just everyone avoids it. Where are the leaders of this Industry at. Why aren't conversations being made? Thanks for letting me blow off some steam.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

Mr wegge, your comments just show that you have an axe to grind and are looking for any one that offers a good deal to the customer to be guilty in the first degree, and you use names and rude comments like the one you called him in your blog. If you say anyone can do it that why the heck aren't you doing it. The profit line for Mr. Stroud's dealership may be different from your own, however that is no reason for you to call him guilty before the jury comes in. I sir have looked at your web site which is very boring and offers me nothing if I was a real intrested custome. I also know that Mr. Stroud's webste is one of the best sites on the market, (not that means anything) and I further know that those guys have paid any and all dues to be in this business as they are one of the oldest dealers in the business, now I don't make comments like this on a competitive dealer without pause and a lot of research, and I have remained quite until now, as I have watched you and other dealers blow off steam because you quite simply can not compete. Despite all the crap that you mentioned about what he does or does not make on a trailer, and your comments about him not stocking or wanting to be in the Motorhome businesss is indeed his business not yours. I am so tired of hearing about all of you so called RV owners that have big overhead and bitch about thoses that don't that can and will sell them for less, is it any different from a customer that comes in and then goes and shops at another dealer and he beats yor price. What the heck is the difference, so you Mr. wegge are way out of your league to even go there. Mr, Stroud, I will say to yo sir, that I, as another dealer has mentioned, have had a customer of yours in my dealership, what ever it is that you boys are doing down there can't be bad for the industry. I have never in my life of the business had someone praise another dealer, and that sir is something to be proud of and dealers like MR, Wegge will contuine to decline in business and you sir will always come out on top. Mr. Wegge mentioned that you come across as a "brillant" man, well sir the fact is that he is. I only wish I had some one in my dealership that could come up with the ideals that he and his partner have (of whom, I was told by a manufactor, is one of the smartest young men in the business period" the manufactor went on to say" those guys have taken this business to the next level and have in place the best customer relation program in the business, and they are always adding new and exciting high tech to this business and they truly are ahead of any dealer in that area of knowledge" Now that is a quote from a manufactor that they do not do business with, who told me about them. Mr Wegge, go cry somewhere else other then this blog your comments are rude and not welcomed by dealer like me who still remember that we are never to old to learn something new. If I was you I would start listening to guys like this and shut my mouth because you are way out classed, and your comments are not professional and you are truly scared of what you do not understand. Mr. Stroud I truly think sir, that you guys are awesome, I welcome your comments and wish I knew more about you personally. One thing for sure, you sir, belive in what you are doing, and we all need a dose of that in these tryng times of slow sales and high gas prices. Mr. Stroud, if you do the podcast, I as others will be looking forward to hearing more about your thoughts on the business and what deales in my situtation can do to control cost and make the necessary chages to stay with the trend of the business. I am sure that you will want to call Mr. Wegge out, but please be nice, as I know you will, even though he does not deserve it. He does not have a clue to what is going on.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

I have 15 years in the RV business, from the service prospective. Mr. Wegge and Mr. Thompson have hit the nail on the head. I have seen what “Factory Direct Pricing “can do. We had a dealer in our area that had a gravel parking lot, a modest building, no service bays, no technicians, and no PDI team. He sold towables only, and did it with predatory pricing, with the mantra that his customers could save on the initial cost of their units and get service from any full service dealer under warranty.
He sold a lot of units, and made a lot of customers angry when their local full service dealer did not have the capacity to service his customers under warranty or do maintenance, because they had made commitments of service expectations to customers who made the decision to buy from the full service dealer.
He stayed in business here for just about 5 years, then the complaints to the BBB, and customers screaming at him in his “showroom” about the inability to get their units repaired finally made him leave the area. Leave the area,( but took his philosophy of make all the money you can and let the customer fend for himself after the sale), changed the name of the business and the dealer principal so no one could follow him, and set up shop in another state. He is continuing to pollute the industry, because far more of his customers have left the RV lifestyle than have stayed.
This internet “Factory Direct” pricing is going to hurt the industry and the lifestyle that we are promoting. The manufacturers have to make a commitment to the dealers and the customers. They need to stop providing product to someone with a computer, DSL line and a website that promotes them as a full service dealer.
Mr. Stroud, you do what you think is right for your business plan, but when visiting your website I noticed that the tab for service has no information about your service department : for example how many customers can you accommodate with service bays, how many certified technicians do you have to do your PDI before the sale, and to do repairs after the sale. What kind of service parts inventory do you maintain? I understand that you are committed to giving the RV customer the best price and great customer service, but I do not see any evidence of that commitment. Just an observation.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

Just a quick responce to Mr. Mark Thompson, your comments are jsut plain wrong. If you were only making five hundred on the serino you mentioned, then you are paying more for the product then we are and I know that you are not! We make a good honest price on every unit sold, my light bill and payroll come across the desk just like they do there. Strickly crap,and does not deserve further comment based on the fact you as Wegge are just angry, and lashing out, with no real ground to stand on. Has it occured to anyone that I am just a small dealer in the midst of hundreds of dealers on the internet! What is the deal here! To the gentleman in the last blog, thanks so much, and we do work hard to be the best we can be, as for the podcast I do not know if I will do that or not, as everything I mention gets beat to death by these guys, and it does not sell RV's for us here.I started this by making some comments on the blog, and know find myself bad mouth by these guys who still hand write their cusomter work orders and purchases on paper, and blow off steam about how bad things are for us "Big dealers" and you dump product and all the other crap that has been mentioned. These are the guys that find a hundred dollar bill on the ground and bitch becasue it is wet. I will end it here, and will make a call on the podcast thing, if I do, I will only discuss new trends as we see them based on our research. Mr wegge and Thompson will not be bad mouth as they have shown that their comments are based on jealous hate of our position and or their own business problems, and their coments have done nothing to educate me or anyone else about this business.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

Thanks for your observations Mr. RVVETERAN, our web site is a work in progress, our service tab will soon be finished and it too will be a new concept in RV service. So that you know I have several RV tech here, and they are all certified TEChs that I send to shool and ofer them a bonus per hour on every class or shcool they attend, and most likley their wages would be considered very high based on what we see in the service area.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

Mr Stroud, we for one understand what it is you guys do, so don't let these nim wits bother you. I know that you guys ae not the problem as you are a full service dealer, I think you were right when you said they are mad because of one thing or another and have lost business to some "factory wholesale" guy. It is a shame that they make calls crying to their reps or factory crying, it is like we don't know how to compete so lets call somebody and complain about the other guy. THAT IS ALL I HAVE HEARD FROM THE CRYERS! It never seems to amaze me how stupid some business owners until realy are until they open thier mouth and insert their foot. Mr. Wegg, and Mr. Thompson you shold both be ashamed and truly should take your foot out of your mouth and quit crying and get up to speed about what is going on in this industry. Mr. Stroud, I too wil be intrested to know if you plan to do the podcast.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

Mr. Stroud, several techs? Certified by whom, RVIA, Dutchmen? I have done a Google map of your facility, I see no service bays, and no building large enough for any neglible service parts inventory. Proud of your customer service with the sale, but still don't see any evidence of after the sale customer service.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

I don't understand why people jumped on the owners of this site and blog. Greg and Wolfgang have been very good for our industry. They set a new standard for indpendent thinking and writing while at RVTD and are doing it again here. Where else can you get this kind of discussion among industry professionals? You wouldn't see this kind of verbal exhange at RVTD or RVB - they are large corporations managed by the bottom line of their annual report. Greg and Wolfgang are more like you smaller dealers than they ever will be with the mega-dealers.

I am disappointed at some of the comments being posted today. A blog is intended to be a discussion forum between interested parties. I see no value in calling others names or getting personal - even if we have a hot topic going. This should be a healthy experience for eveyone and I think we are all learning from each other. As I said in an earlier post, there is no right or wrong person here and there is no right or wrong strategy. Several factors play into the success or failure of a business entity - not the least of which is changing market conditions, pricing policies, manufacturer/dealer relations and the sales, service and after-sale support neccessary to leave the customer with a good impression of our industry, and excellent product to enjoy their RV lifestyle, and a collective agreement that it is the responsibility of everyone in this industry (dealers, campgrounds, suppliers, manufacturers, trade publications and industry associations) to move the industry forward. Cutting people off at the knees and verbally abusing them because they may disagree with other commentators does not reflect well on the industry and will do little to help us grow the industry so everyone can prosper.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

In the interest of being able to continue to have discussions about various "hot" topics such as this one, I'd ask all of you to please refrain from personal attacks, name calling, etc...This blog is intended as a resource for all of us, and hopefully we can all learn a thing or two. Please treat it as such, and use common sense. It's sometimes tempting to sit behind a keyboard and get carried away...
Thank You,
Wolfgang

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

Why did you guys remove that rv customers comments. I for one wanted those guys that bad mouthed Mr. Stroud to see what a real RV buyer had to say, pleae put it back up, I for one learned from his comments.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

This sounds so contrived. the last blogger (the supposed customer) mentions things in the blog that haven't been said in any previous blog. first, not one of these gentlemen have ever said anything about not servicing people who didn't purchase from them. None have suggested the internet is not a great way to shop and educate yourself about RVing or purchasing an RV. It has been mentioned that there have been internet sellers that had not offered any service but not from any of the gentlemen listed, on the contrary all of them have acknowledged that most internet sellers do have service. That wasn't their point. Their point as I read this was that if the internet seller sells an RV for whatever price to a consumer from great distances from there store what garantee do they have that the local dealer or any convenient repair facililty will do their repair service while they are at home where most of their service issues are taken care of. Many rvers don't necessarily go long distances. most do short trips and get most of their service work done at home when they are done using it for a time.
I didn't notice anywhere where the wegge fellow mention anything about anyone dumping products. I frankly agree with these guys. noone has said that the internet sellign is wrong or that you can't get serviced by intenet sellers. what I've heard is this internet low cost model isn't for all dealers but the prices that are too low for the majority of dealers to survive with are perhaps putting them out of business. Maybe that's what the low overhead internet guys want but I would caution that that is a double edged sword. Mr. customer, Mr.stroud has a great concept and i'm sure great customer service but I think it isn't good for any industry for the service and distribution side of it to fail because they didn't choose to have a low overhead business model and facility. Some customers don't feel comfortable buying from low rent facilities. Seems to me there's a market for both models and we shouldn't have it in our hearts to try to hurt them. Another more powerful all knowing judge will determine what's in your heart.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

Mr Stroud, I for one want to say how sorry I am personaly that the guys on this web site talked about you and I know that several of them contacted one of the RV factories that you purchase from, as I learned today from my rep, I for one was very upset to know that they did such a really bad thing, that is truly bad form.It really makes me sad that they would get on the phone and complain over your comments and pick you out as a dealer. I know you guys and you did not deserve that, and I for one am sick about it, and I understand that you will not post further comments, as Wolf as mentioned, this was a open discussion, and people get hot abut this topic, but what happen with them calling the factory is down right mean and shows how stupid they are as this was only some conversation between dealers, I too saw the comments that the RV customer left early this morning and I wish and hope that the others saw them as well and I hope that they get put back up, I am sure you know who made the calls, and once again if I hate that this happen, and I wish you guys the best of luck as I know that you and your partner truly are some of the most brillant men in the business. Good luck sir and God Bless

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

Because this is an industry blog, we will upon occasion, take the liberty of removing comments made by RV consumers. This site, and particularly this discussion, are intended for the primary benefit of people who own businesses that make, sell and service RVs. Consumers have many other forums for which they can discuss these issues. We do not want to dissuade our primary audience from participating in the discussions if they think consumers are monitoring what they are saying. Also, when asked, our IT people are able to determine if the same IP addresses are being used to post multiple comments under different names. When we encounter situations like that, we will also take the liberty of removing certain comments. It is very infrequent that a comment would ever be deleted, but we do so on rare occasion when we feel it is in the best interests of the small business owners who rely on this site for news and information. Hope that answers your question, Concerned Owner. GREG GERBER, Editor, RV Industry News.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

Dealers! If you dont see what I was talking about here on this Blog "You are Blind"

rvveteran & thompson, you are correct the 3 dealers at the top this posting do very small deales because they cant afford to keep paying their interest, I can prove it also.

This is not an Industry Blog! This is a Ploy to better the rankings of the Website Mentioned at the top of this posting.

Milomedia why would i want to call you. You have allowed a bunch of "Script Kiddies" Web Designers, Programmers & Web Marketers to post anonymously on this site.

For a OLDSCHOOL dealer like myslef I was watching this posting and enjoyed reading rvinews until I read this "fleecing the customer by Phil Stroud!
When i first saw fleece all I could think of was Douche!
Phill Stroud is obviously a Fool who doesnt respect his elders in the RV Buisness, if he wants to act like a customer and kill his profit..Need I say More.

Greg Gerber started this in hopes to hike up the rankings of the 3dealers he first mentioned.

Now You guys need to respect the Folks who have ben in this buisness way longer than you.
I will make sure that Mr Stroubs Manufacturers reads his coments, along with the RVIA and RVDA.

You guys are going overboard here and you have stepped on me and my friends in the buisness,
If you dont stop this and ditch this worthless Blog, (Try using a Blogger whos ben in the RV Busisness for 30-40yrs), I will reveal to everyone on here your secret ways of misleading the consumer to help your sites rankings.
Go back to what you suyppose to do, Build sites and try to profit from addons. Stop posting fake adds for the betterment of your own personell portfolio.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

I do not understand the venom spewed out by RayLee against the dealers contributing comments here, or the owners of this web site and magazine. I am a freelance wirter in the RV indutry and have been since 1996. I can't remember a single topic in those twelve years that has reached the level of intensity, criticism, and commentary we have seen over this topic. I did get a chance to listen to Tim Wegge's podcast today and was very impressed with the questions Greg asked (they were not softballs) and even more impressed with the honesty, sincerity, and concern for the future of this industry expressed by Tim. At no time did he criticize a particular person or dealership, he was simply presenting his view of the damage some of these tactics are doing to the RV industry in general, and eventually the consumer. If we have people contributing to this blog that have not yet listened to Tim's podcast I would urge you to listen now.

I did come up with an idea about half-way through the podcast that could possibly work to alleviate the concern about having consumers taking delivery in their backyard with no PDI or instruction in the proper operation of the various appliances and systems on their unit. I think there is a significant liability issue for dealers selling this way and the manufacturers that allow it to happen. So here's something else to think about:

Why can't the manufacturers come up with a form that requires the customer to sign off upon delivery of a trailer or motorhome that proves they have received a proper orientation and education upon delivery of a unit. If such a record is not on file with the manufacturer when a request comes in for warranty repairs, then the servicing dealer must receive their prevailing wage rates and full value (or more) for the parts required to fix the unit. The manufacturere should then invoice the selling dealer because they did not complete the sale and assure that there is a satisfied customer on the receiving end of the transaction.

The form should also include an explanation that forging a customer signature is fraud and subject to litigation and possible jail time.

An Internet selling dealer should, if they are smart, make arrangements with another dealer to perform the PDI and customer orientation and pay them accordingly. This extra money, that will assure customer satisfaction, would obviously have to come out of the dealers low profit on the deal - or - if they are smart, will be added to the sellihng price of the unit which will then bring more parity between the pricing from an Internet broker (with little or no overhead) and the local dealer.

This comment is provided for discussion geared toward making some intelligent decisions that both dealers and manufacturers can live with and assures a positive selling and after-sale experience for the most important people here - the consumer that buys the products offered by the RV industry.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

Finally, a constructive idea and a good one at that. we have to keep talking about how to prevent the internet from negatively affecting the RV consumer and the majority of dealers. Thanks Bob.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

Bob, I do not understand the hate and jealously displayed by RAYLEE, this guy is the reason that other RV dealers like me don't get on blogs. If you will noticed this guy has lost it, and appears mad at the world, I saw some intresting comments, by someone that had some NEW Good ideals, and as gas prices will grow higher and higher, and customers in our market are NOT BUYING because gas prices affect everything, RAYLEE gets on this blog and advises all dealer to start with the phone calls to manufactours, this is why we are, where we are. I for one was very intrested as a lot of other dealers where to find a way to help my business as these trying times in retail get worse and worse, so what does RAYLEE do, he wants to pick up the phone and start complaing about what he does not undestand, and he has as I know now, contacted several manufactors for no other reason then his own jealously factor. Instead of learning from some of these "SMART YOUNG GUYS" he picks up thephone and call manufactors, this bothers me to the point, that as my father use to say, "someone needs to take that boy out back and beat some sense into him" Nowhe and we are back in the same situtation, sales are very slow, gas will go over $4.85 a gallon very soon and higher in the summer, and instead of learning something that might help the business survive, he has complained and cried to the manufactors that the young man that was just trying to help some of us older guys with some new comcepts, has left the blog and is most likley taking heat from the manufactor for no other reason then RAYLEE thoughtless and un-needed phone call. NOw we all have lost insight as to someting that truly could have helped us all with our business. Look at all the manufactors that are going out of business, look at the slow retail market, motorhomes setting on the lot with spider webs on them, and this guys picks up the phone and calls manufactors about someone merely wanting to share some new info that could produce more sale for all of us. NOw one manufactor told me that he kows who this RAYLEE charcter is and that he does not know how he sells any RV's because he is to busy complaing about other RV dealers, and is unsure how he has any time to sell RV's and that he is the one who could use the most help. I am very disapointed n his comments about the owners of this blog and if I were you guys I would remove all his comments as they are all comments from a angry little man with little or nothing to do but complain about something he apearantly knows little if anything about. THE INDUSTRY IS IN TROUBLE GENTLEMEN, this blog started so that we can have a open forum to discuss new ideal to sell more RV's-THats it, and he wants to make this sound like it is some communist paper, I wish I knew his name, but of course those that make comments like he does hide behind a wall, because he knows that those of us intrested in learning from others dispise comments likes his, and he stops the whole learning process. I can't tell you gentlemen, how mad this makes me, and I will call the manufactor as well in support of the man that was trying to share some new ideals that sell RV's. The whole concept of this blog was to discuss internet selling by no service dealer and the gentleman that replied was and I have confirmed, has a full service departmen and is not an intnert pirate. NOw as I and others wanted to hear more about good clean internet selling, which this blog opned up, this man, and for good reason most likley has the manufactor breathing down his neck for doing nothng more then willing to help dealers like myself that truly do not understand the internet and need help! Becasue WOlf and BOB and others have asked to keep it clean, I will do just that, however I truly wish I knew who this RAYLEE charcter was because I want to send his manufactour the comments he has made a they are ten times worse then anything I have seen. It is guys like him that give the industry a black eye, and why our customers are looking for nw resourses to purchase their RV. I truly wish the young man well, and I for one wish I would have had the chance to lean more.

Re: Internet selling podcast opens can of worms

It's ufortunate when the vocal minority has undue influence of the interested majority. I'm sure the manufacturer has better things to do than listen to a cry baby complaining about another dealer.

Another thing that might work is something we do in my document imaging career (my real world job.) Most of our manufacturers assign the dealers a "primary area of responsibility." This is an area that one can effectively cover given the size of the dealership, their experience in the business, and their capability to service the customer to acceptable levels of competency. If we sell a machine outside our area of responsbility the total profit on the deal is split between the two dealers. The selling dealer gets less profit because they will not have the requirement to install, train, and support the local customer. The receiving dealer gets half the profit because he has to the things the selling dealer isn't going to do. He is going to install, train and support (espcially on warranty issues) the customer to assure that they are satisfied with their purchase. I can tell you from working with this system for almost thirty years - it works and it works very well. I do not understand the lack of creativity and communications between all parties to a successful RV sale and a positive experience for each and every consumer that buys into the RV lifestyle. If ever there was a time to start changing the way the RV industry works, it is right now ..... this could be a very challenging year and it will be a lot more tolerable if everyone is going in the same direction!